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Alt-Right furry, Benjamin "Polybun" Smith, charged with murder of 60 year old Portland woman

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The OPB reports that Benjamin Smith, known in the fandom under his fursona name “Polybun”, faces murder and attempted murder charges after he confronted protesters before opening fire into the crowd. Four were injured and one, Brandy Knightly, a sixty year old woman, lost her life in the attack.

Connections to the fandom were fished out by the local Portland community furries as images of the attacker made the rounds. One of the first to report on this to social media was Triss Winters, a furry left-wing activist out of Portland who recalled when Polybun was removed from one of his house parties a decade ago due to him brandishing a knife and threatening to stab someone who took a photo of him at the event.

Furries dug up data as misinformation spread

While furries of social media were sharing the information they had on the suspect, law enforcement released erroneous information to Reuters that the homicide was due to an altercation with a homeowner against the protestors. This narrative of a homeowner defending his property made its way around social media circles that tend to not look at left-wing protests with any favor.

However, the attack didn’t happen at a residence like the word homeowner would imply, but at Normandale Park. In addition, video of weapons being confiscated from the shooter’s residence later indicates that the individual lived in a multi-residential complex, and not a house. This would later to be found out to be the Rose City Terrace, found just south of the park where the murder occurred.

People in the fandom released a variety of historical conversation captures that were deemed as warning signs in the shooter’s hostile behaviors. This negative behavior of Polybun’s also showed up here shortly on Flayrah, when he left a nasty comment on the obituary of Furp thirteen years ago.

This was tame compared to other reported behaviors. Ariadne Conill indicated that they had informed the police of Ben’s threatening behavior back in 2007. This was because Polybun acquired the identifying information of people on the staff of a service called Audacious following the closure of Gentoo. He believed it was a conspiracy of those who ran Audacious to strongarm the recommendation Gentoo had given to their users to use it as a replacement for them. They are unaware of any action taken due to the police reports.

The press did get around to following this lead, with the Rolling Stone posting information and interviews they had with furries such as Deo, Patch, Ariadne, and GreenReaper.

An Alt-Furry Response

One user of the Telegram Group “Make Furry Great Again” made a statement about the situation of their user Polybun after the shooting, but prior to the charges against them being levied:

No I’m not in contact with [Polybun], nor do I know anyone that is. I don’t have any inside information, and my knowledge is limited to what’s circulating in the media. I’m just as shocked and confused as everyone else.

I’ve known Poly for years, but we’ve never met in person. We aren’t particularly close, and we’ve probably spent more time bickering at each other than being friendly. He’s an abrasive asshole, but still a good man at heart. He’ll give the shirt off his back to his friends.

I don’t believe he would start shooting unprovoked. I’m withholding my judgment on the situation until more information is released.

There is a weighted language in the second paragraph where the one making the statement is trying to embrace someone they knew was one of their comrades, but is also distancing in case the worse news were to come to pass. One reading this should wonder how one could conclude that a person would give their shirt off their back to a friend when they never witnessed their behaviors in person and only know them through a political chatroom.

This social behavior is similar to that of how the alt-right treats those who stormed the United States Capital on January 6th. Singing their praises amongst one another, yet in public claiming they were false flag “AntiFa sympathizers” and leaving them to fend for themselves against pending charges. It is important for those in political organizations such as these to know that those within those groups may attempt to provoke you into doing things for their cause, and will toss you at the first sign of trouble. The Foot Clan is your family, as it were.

And while the statement claims Polybun didn't show signs they would shoot someone unprovoked, it should be noted that the charged shooter was quoted in the chatroom for the convention Free Fur All indicating that if someone is confronted by those in the left wing, they should be the first to open fire.

[“Liberal Commies”] are better armed than you think… and much more willing to shoot. [...] There had better be no hesitation on your part, do not be the second one to draw and fire. - Polybun

While some may see words as just merely words, it is important that when a dog frequently growls, there is a far greater chance they'll bite.


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I will note that there seems to be a pattern of an individual who both hates the military, but is also ironically militant himself.

In his livejournal [under the name Polyhead - which shows that the prefix of poly* references a automobile part and not a sexual preference] when his brother went to Iraq he basically decried that he hoped he died over there because he 'voted for Bush.' Likewise, the thing he got angry at with Furp's death is that he was in the military. Perhaps he tried to get in himself but didn't qualify? Or he hated his brother and anything he was affiliated with?

Regardless, my heart goes out to the Knightly family, and honor her and those injured for exercising their free speech. Their exercising brought out a demon, and hopefully it is one that will be ousted from being able to harm anyone else.

They took the bullets that could have easily been for others and those within our fandom.

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Polybun was removed from many babyfur communities well near two decades ago because of repeated death threats, threats against jews, blacks, and other minorities, and his stated willingness to carry out those threats, twenty years ago.

But hey, because they're babyfurs, they fall down far the geek social hierarchy even within furry, and his actions were largely ignored by the fandom.

I knew this guy would kill someone 15 years ago. Many of us did.

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Down the geek social hierarchy? Do you have something against babyfurs? Many more babyfurs align with antifa than what this guy aligned with. How's the difference of everyday furries being sexually into "uwu" 11-15yo looking characters any different than the ones into 3-14yo ones? Both is pedophilic. At least babyfurs are more SFW and innocence-seeking.

The only thing the public will scorn over this is the fact they were a furry. How the fact he was a furry being in light of this makes no sense at all. He could have had any interest. Killers have many properties. Being a furry or a babyfur shouldn't have been brought up at all, it's literally troll-bait, media mockery.

But hey may be if furries stopped in-fighting and bullying each other they wouldn't be so many guys like this who end up taking out their aggression. This is just proof that furry subculture marginalizes people so much within itself with its one-way sjw ideologies leads to extremist and occult behaviors. Furry has been a stagnant swamp for years now, you can expect swamp monsters to be abundant. Furry should be more genuinely accepting, otherwise those who are rejected will find some way to fight back via whatever remaining group still welcomes them. This dude was clearly messed up and there's always reasons for such behaviors. If you be an asshole, you will create assholes like this, end of.

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No one is responsible for firing the weapon beyond the individual who stockpiled the weapons and pulled the trigger.

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False, the whole universe runs on causality, it's basic physics. If someone is angered by society, it's because society made them feel angry. If being in the furry community is at the core of someone's identity and kills someone like this, it means that the imbalance of the community is responsible for his actions. If they just have a furry interest, the fact they're furry bears absolutely no relevance to the person's actions. Furry in the case then simply becomes a common interest and you can't police an interest - there's no such thing. Interests have no authority, you'd need a literal authoritarian furry government to prevent and that's just laughable. If it annoys you someone like this was also a furry, then that means you're ruled too much by your ego and feel de-validated for the fact you and this other person identifies as a furry equally. Try to separate yourself from protecting your false sense of identity from being stained, and instead encourage acceptance and mental diversity in the community. It's the only way to dissolve the many small layers that cause imbalance in such individuals. Mentality is always causal and no one is born magically with a dark/evil soul, question the reasoning.

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So you're saying that a person who understands physics can understand the psychology of humans? Let's see what the OG Physicist says on this:

I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies, but not the madness of the people. - Issac Newton

So if you are capable of predicting madness in others based upon physics, then you're a better man than Newton.

But if you're that smart, you can take full credit for the madness of Polybun. Turn yourself into the authorities since apparently you chose not to stop him.

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Actually, no, I have nothing against Babyfurs, saying as I am one. I helped run IRC channels two decades ago when we kicked Polybun out for his racist ranting and death threats and the like. We reported he was saying this thing all over the fandom, and the fandom mostly ignored it because of who we were. We have logs from those days. There's evidence he was going to do this from day one, and when we told other furries about it we were shot down because we were "diaper shitters."

He, like many other nazi-furs, chose babyfur to hide out in because NOBODY LISTENED TO US THEN.

Everyone's acting like this Nazi-fur thing is new? I remember when Nazi-furs had open parties at FWA, Mephit Furmeet, and Rocket City Furmeet while those cons went out of their way to let them.

My whole point is that the warning signals about Polybun in this fandom went out decades ago. They were ignored because of who were reporting his bad actions. Most of us in the babyfurs IRC days knew he was going to one day murder someone, fuck, I mean he talked about it all the time.

Polybun told everyone who he was two decades ago. He told people he was going to do this. We could have pushed him out THEN had the fandom listened.

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Self-deprecation is still deprecation, not everyone values that.
What do you term racist here, towards which groups? Racists come in three forms -> raised (ideologically protective), radicalized (paranoid/reactive to a perception of current events), and unstable (confused, many hatred/reactive thoughts due to receiving abuse from other sources etc, racism becomes an outlet). I've never seen a true innate racist, because their reasoning is always based on the sense of identity or some visceral nature. No one's born "hey I think I'll hate x race or all/other races", you shouldn't give racists the identity that makes them think this is normal.

Likewise the term "nazi" should be used carefully, I think among racists, only a minority align themselves with national-socialist ideologies. As such the word "nazi", an reductio ad hitlerum becomes a slur and devoids the root cause of their behaviors. If you drive that home they might just start trying to become actual nazis or pretending to be them. In other words, you cause a segregation and this results in poor communication. It's untruthful to the underlying cause for the majority of the time. Most racism is passive-aggressive, therefore radicalized racism is visceral in nature and inherently an insecurity.

I feel like you're too focused on the actions than the cause of them. Something must have happened in this person to cause this to happen. This means that is preventable in the future. Simply segregating any such persons will radicalize them further, because they will feel attacked. I could tell, like you, that was going to happen years ago, but what did you do? You did it your way and it failed, it isn't how psychology works.
It's very clear this person didn't get the help needed but rather kept getting kicked and thus encouraged for his actions. When someone is suffering from inner-conflict, this will have a volcanic effect and will cause the person to believe their own monologues and engage in groups that enforce said monologues.

Furry is full of very defined "hug-boxes" which are very unsettling to people who are not aligned with the political or ideological values of said group. This makes them develop their own groups which they will report back to whenever they feel ostracized or harmed (viscerally, through drama) by others. If there was more middle-ground in the fandom it would better allow those persons to make a mental compromise. As long as the volcanic effect is eased, then these fatal behaviors won't occur. The trouble is the hug-boxes tend to punish thought and feeling, rather than dissolve it by showing them the diversity in thought and that there a many opinions beyond their own. Because they were pushed into monologue-driven groups instead of accepting ones they can't help but see things as a division. This is different to how an internet-troll behaves for example, as a troll seeks a reaction and doesn't desire acceptance as they're more stable. A person like this is not troll-driven and lashes out because they struggle to let go of the divide due to the polarized barrier.

In order to diffuse such polarization in the fandom, you must understand that these persons are conflicted.
It is not easy for most to see past this, as both sides have their own fair share of mental diarrhea.
But you can try to show your understanding towards them at the base human level. Many just feel they have a score to settle as well. It's important for those who developed inner-conflict from damage or poor role models from a young age to be given better role models through the fandom. That is not going to happen for as long as you give them identity (e.g. call them nazis) or ostracize them, because in doing so you're encouraging these people to create a sense of patronage that doesn't really exist.

If such persons say something racist, it should be clear-cut rules in any group that doesn't want this that that is the rules. If someone rants or warrants drama, they should be told to calm down or to leave on the sole basis that they're disrupting the status quo. If you bar them immediately on the basis of their ideology, you will make them feel ganged up against, which will make them feel more driven and victimized.
However you should not hunt out, bully or cancel these people when they are behaving. It's of most importance that furry communities/groups try to encourage these people to see the light, instead of feeding hatred.
I am not blaming any one set person, their interactions may be discrete and historic, and potentially even outside of the fandom. But I've seen how people can be cancelled in the furry communities to the point they tried to make their own communities, and this creates warring factions of split-up and diverging ideologies.

Just like you mentioned with babyfurs and InkBunny, it seems even you find that due to the ostracization of an innocent group (e.g. babyfurs). Babyfurs have been massively discouraged from other sites and that has created an imbalance. The fact that there's any comparison to something like babyfurs to racist or nazi ideology is a blatant demonstration of the lack of acceptance in the fandom. The fandom treats babyfurs in a similar way to how historical racists treat other races through apartheid. It's all rather uncanny isn't it? Actually, not at all, many people told babyfurs they're inferior and unwanted or that they're pedophiles when even medicine and criminology discerns a different between pedophilia and infantilism. So I'm not surprised one or two have lashed back and absorbed values opposite to the rest of the fandom. Whether they were babyfur before or after is moot as the fact this segregation even exists in itself shows the fandom can do far better to prevent the breeding of hatred that results from ostracization.

It's what happens when you let media and non-psychologists try to define how any set community e.g. furry should be like. Want the furry community to be a global whole? Then where are its democratic elections where everyone gets a say? No, it's the responsibility of people to understand each other and not exercise their power with such poor understanding of each other. If people invested in psychology rather than in flexing over what ideology should rule the fandom then this mess would have never happened, believe me. Thankfully I'm in no such furry groups that actually think that way and there's no racists there, only ex-racists.

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For the benefit of the above commenter: only registered users may post about socialism without being automatically spam-filtered, due to its inclusion of the frequently-spammed medication 'cialis'. (I've tweaked the spam filtering module again to weigh the 'socialis' allow-filter higher, but I can't guarantee that fix will work.)

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Yeah, you missed the babyfur's obvious sarcasm, but go on and explain your in depth knowledge of psychology.

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When you accidentally take an extra vyvanse

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I didn't mention Inkbunny, and I didn't read the rest of your crap because you didn't actually say anything of value.

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I mean, he kinda said it himself twenty years ago:

[…] I'm a criminal becuase i want to and WILL own hand guns no matter what laws are made, if guns are ban I'll give my life up before i give up my guns. I pirate, I use key gens.. I scan entire Class c's looking for port 24 hanging open.. if it is.. I start seing if a can map it. I cures.. thats going to end up being a crime.. in many places it is already.

I can't imagine any future formyself other than in prison.. well.. for me its more like dying either running from the cops for all I'm worth or being gunned down while trying to breawk out of prison. Its like why even fucking bother living.. I'm just a worthless criminal peice of fucking trash any way.

I also want to add FUCK YOU US GOVERNMENT.. […]

You think i'm such fucking dirt.. hurry up and call the fucking cops and have them try to come and get me so i can huyrry up and fucking die goddamn it becuase i can already see what a fucking waste my whoel fucking life is since i'll just end up a fucking criminal..

Not that he's the only one to create angsty journals. If anything, being a babyfur/cub and ham radio helped distract him from his problems. But in the end, it clearly wasn't enough; probably extensive lockdowns in which he took a position against masks didn't help.

[Also, I think I stumbled across why he had such a thing against Furp - I guess "ROW" is "remotely-operated weapon" in this context.]

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Can't face charges if he bites it after the got git by the guy he thought he was prepared for

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He's expected to survive and has lived through the surgery. Last I've heard, he's stable and can be discharged soon. If that's true, of course. The police have been very defensive of him.

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First Brandon Hole. Then Kyle Rittenhouse. Then Sam Hyde. Now this. They can't keep getting away with this.

You know these incidents are getting worse because they're doubling down on their whiteness. Nazi diaperfurs. Move over Dylann Roof.

I'm floored. As a man of multculturalism, I dont know how such vicious hate could exist. When I'm in Asiatown, I do ninja kung fu while eating ramen noodles. When I watch 12 Years a Slave, I clap and sing along with Paul Dano. When I'm at Taco Bell, I'm friends with all the El Salvadorians. I've been everywhere and know everybody, so down syndrome Nazis are naturally going to terrify me. I might like their conviction, but that doesn't mean I agree with them!

If I had to list ten characters who would support Benjamin Polybun Smith, they would be as follows:

Allen Gregory
Sway Sway
Gene Emoji
Dobby the House Elf
Jar Jar Binks
Satan from South Park
Rey from Star Wars

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Given that Nazis also control the Ukranian government, how is this threat not taken more seriously? Americans need to take a note from Russia. I AM ANTIFA! PUNCH FASCISTS

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Ten Characters who Would Support Vladimir Putin:

Rocket Raccoon
Sally May from Helluva Boss
IMP from Helluva Boss
Mickey Mouse

First there was January 6th, in which a white nationalist insurrection took place at the US Capitol. Now its been reported that Ukraine is in fact a Neo-Nazi controlled Nation. Coincidence? I think not.

It is up to us to liberate Kiev and Portland from this scourge. Whiteness has destroyed the world and it is making a comeback. Undo your whiteness!

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I don't get the joke, but that's only 9 characters. You have trouble counting that high?

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Despite what the Kremlin may tell you by appeasing to facist fears, the primary reason they started pushing to re-incorporate Ukraine was natural gas deposits that were found prior to the Crimea invasion in 2014.

If you're talking about military action, whether it is Pentagon or Kremlin, it's always about the energy. The rest is just rhetoric.

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Above, someone claimed that Polybun made "threats against jews, blacks, and other minorities." I wonder if anyone can provide me with the means verify these claims. Thanks.

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That was me, and sadly no, I don't have those logfiles handy. They're over 10-15 years old and from the #babyfurs IRC channel as well as related channels to that niche, and he absolutely was banned for them. You CAN , however, find his livejournal and other journals out and about where he was clearly still making those threats and promises. Other people have clipped similar things from other various sources. Also, the Portland Police Bureau apparently has a significant file on him and his threats, though never acted on it.

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OK, thanks for the response. I do appreciate it. I went through his LiveJournal stuff and his Reddit stuff. I don't see any threats against Jews, blacks or other minorities. in fact, I see him saying that he is black (and gay). It seems he was not very political but that he is left wing, or at least he was, because he wrote, “So, I got a job doing leftist pollitical canvassing. Its kind of cool, since I am collecting for places like the ACLU and the democratic party and such.”

If you have any evidence to the contrary, please share, thanks, but it seems that you must be wrong about those logfiles and #babyfurs IRC since you seem to be wrong about his LiveJournal and etc.

Thanks, though.

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"fwiw" if there is any value here for further research

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Thank you kindly. I will be sure to go over this thoroughly. I appreciate it.

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He was "left-wing" by the standards of 2009.

The interesting thing about Trumpism that I have noted is that it has created a shift in people who would identify as Republican or Democrat in American society. Almost to the point where JFK caused a paradigm shift in how people would affiliate.

I note this usually impacted individuals who are cis-gender white males who are atheistic or are anti-theist.

Two the Ranting Gryphon and Benjamin Polybun are prime examples of furries who if you told them in 2009 they would identify with the Republican party by 2016 they would have laughed you out of the room. I guess that's why they initially labeled themselves 'alt-right' to distinguish that the new right before Trump took office was different than the Bush/Regan Republicans. The irony is these left-wingers who transitioned to right-wing tend to scoff the idea of people shifting their recognized gender identities.

So why would they identify as Democrats before Trump? My theory is that because before Trump the religious knowledge aspect was important in right wing circles. Trump basically couldn't hide the fact that if he had any theological ties to any deity it would be only Mammon. So it opened the comfort door for angry cis-gendered white males to identify more with the right wing than the left. The left at this time started to adapt more moralistic platitudes when it comes to evaluating content of character. Even if they didn't do it with a specific deity.

Organizations of people are not static, they shift and change with the times, and some get caught up in the current. To call a person left wing or right wing based on how they openly identified over 12 years ago is going to be as outdated as listening to music on an iPod.

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Yeah, you raise some good points. As far as I can tell you're more-or-less right about all of that with one possible exception. I am not so sure that applies to Polybun and/or Benjamin J Smith.

I'm still looking but so far I see very little evidence that Polybun cares about politics and less evidence that he's changed. Also, so far I do not see a reason to believe that Polybun is Benjamin J Smith. But I am eager for evidence. If you have any, I would be grateful. Thanks.

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The fact that you don't know Polybun is Benjamin Smith speaks volumes.

Gay/black/jewish/whatever has nothing to do with someone being a far right wing fascist. Have you forgotten what Milo Yiannopoulos is?

They use identity as a Trojan Horse or mask. This goes back to "jews for hitler" groups. The word for that is collaborator.

Go read some basic history before spreading nonsense please.

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I'm just assuming that he's a troll or something. The police and FBI and others know full well who Polybun is, and the fact that he's Benjamin Smith is really not in question at this point.

Dunno why this person wants to separate the two, or what the game is they're playing, but this investigation has gone a lot further than "is this person Polybun" by this point and whatever game is being played here is some kind of silly identity politics bullshit.

It's Polybun. He's going to jail for the rest of his life or a good enough portion of it.

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Yeah, we've already had one semi-anonymous commenter "just asking questions" (and also ... itchy) who for some reason thinks we can't figure out which side their on. Show us a little respect, guys, come on.

I get it. A lot of us have been saying this kind of ideology is dangerous, and it kind doesn't help your case that you're not when people with this kind of ideology start, you know, killing people. Again. You're just gonna have to take L on this one, guys.

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If certain images I have seen shared by @Johnnthelefty on Twitter are legit screenshots then they would have to be from the last year or so, it seems, and they would indicate a switch from left to right.

Well, it's been a few weeks since I last looked, but the last I checked, all the claims that Polybun is Benjamin Smith were coming from, well, people on Twitter. But I've gone over Polybun's LiveJournal entries from 2001-211 and his Reddit for the last 4 years and so far there's almost nothing political by Polybun other than a pro-Democrat party LiveJournal, a few Reddit comments about how "podunk america", including people from Georgia, are hicks, hate gay people, and so on.

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We don't need to reinvent the wheel here and correct your act. Nothing you are posting is actually in question. Benjamin Smith is a fascist who killed people for his ideology and will look forward to life in jail.

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How do you know Polybun is Benjamin J Smith?

Yes, Polybun could be gay and right wing. BTW I am not entirely sure he would classify as gay. He may be bi because he seems to be into a couple of anime girl characters in adult cartoons. I guess it's possible he just likes to watch anime with these characters despite being gay, I don't know. But he wrote a lot about being in love with a man on LiveJournal in the earlier 2000s.

There's also the fact that he is against religion, very much. He wrote about how people in the LBGTQ community should be against Christianity and so on. Poly also said he was happy about collecting money for left wing causes.

There are screen shots out there that would indicate that he is anti-Jew.

I am still looking for valid evidence that these images are legit screenshots or any other evidence that may be out there. I'm certainly not trying to defend the right wing. So I'm eager to see and would be grateful for any/all evidence. Thanks.

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Because others I know have attested to meeting him personally, and he is the person arrested by police, and court documents have identified him as such? As has his roommmate? And his brother?

Come on. We're done here. Seriously. Check Portland news if you want more on this. It's not getting national play because of Ukraine, but local news is absolutely well down the path here.

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Yes, I understand Benjamin J Smith was arrested for shooting 5 people including the "June" Knightly, RIP. I'm not questioning that.

I have read lots of articles that say that his roommate and etc. say these things about him. But what evidence do they offer that these people actually said these things? Have I missed something that would verify these claims? I mean, this is coming from the Oregonian, Portland Mercury and etc. who I have seen misreport on such matters just about any time something like this goes down.

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They got these things from people who knew him who also talk to us. "You have seen them misreport" OK then, anon poster at the bottom of the barrel of comment sections who doesn't even have a clue on the ID of the guy we all know is the guy

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Would you be willing to put me in contact with any of these people who knew him?

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How do we convey information through text to a person who clearly is illiterate (the article or links there-in lead to all the stories that tie the person to the crimes)?

How do we inform people that just asking question does not make one a Socrates?

How do we inform them that the Socratic Method was to actually find out information?

Do they know that the Socratic Method's purpose was to not to launch an inquisition against facts that make them uncomfortable?

Do they realize that people can plainly see when they abuse the method in order to make the facts presented appear unreliable in conveying information?

I mean, if people are asking questions, clearly the facts are not clear enough?

If we ask enough questions won't it cause uncertainty to onlookers?

I'll be calling that political methodology Socratic Rape from here on out.

Isn't it sad that this method has been used so much that I've felt the need to define it?

And yes, this comment is very much an example of Socratic Rape.

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Yes, I am aware that, "the article or links there-in" are supposed to, "lead to all the stories that tie the person to the crimes" and that there are many such articles. I invite you to read the articles, click the links and so on and on and see if you ever hit solid ground. So far, as far as I have seen (and I have seen a lot), it's "Turtles, turtles, turtles, all the way down" so to speak.

Again, I am eager for valid evidence regarding Polybun's politics (other than his LiveJournal entries from 2001-2011 and his Reddit stuff because I have all that).

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But to make a non-Socratic Rape comment I will state this. Both the left wing and right wing furries are saying "yes, this is Polybun" and felt the need to respond, as can be seen in the article above.

I guess both sides, for all their faults, still try and distance themselves from people who murder.

If you're still unconvinced then I could make some time later on to go finding photos of Polybun on his social media and compare it to the criminal photos of Ben. But, if you were really actually curious, that is something you could also do these days. I have access to the same tools everyone else does.

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Yes, thank you, I do have access to the same tools and I have read hundreds of posts, comments, etc. from Polybun so far. However, I would not presume that I have not missed anything. That is why I am here looking for more. Thanks.

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I am here trying to find the truth, trying to find the evidence that Polybun was/is alt-right/far-right/right-wing.

I figured I would look into whether Polybun and/or Poly Head and/or Poly Bun is Benjamin J Smith after I am done looking through the social media content. But, you're more than welcome to tell me where to look for that in due turn.

In the mean time, I am concerned with evidence that Polybun is right wing. If you can help, I will be grateful. Thanks.

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From article:

One user of the Telegram Group “Make Furry Great Again” made a statement about the situation of their user Polybun after the shooting, but prior to the charges against them being levied

"Make [NOUN] Great Again" is a slogan of the Alt-Right/Trumpism. People who disagree with those philosophies would not be in those rooms.

So I'm going to use the *actual* socratic method here and ask you a question in turn.

*Why* are you concerned about the evidence of Polybun's political affiliations?

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Ah, a lead. Thanks a lot!

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...One that was in the article before you peppered our comment sections with questions...

And you didn't answer my question.

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Yes, I set aside that link and continued to discuss this with you rather than pursue that link. Perhaps I should have set aside our discussion and pursued the link instead. At any rate, thanks for giving that link to me a second time. I'm going to have to make a Telegram account now, it seems.

I am interested in the political views of Polyhead and/or Polybun and/or Benjamin J Smith because of the strange discrepancy between what some claim and what the evidence that I have seen so far suggests. As someone who is investigating the story, it is not "Socratic rape" but rather my responsibility as a member of society to pursue the truth.

Speaking of the Socratic method and Socrates, it is exquisitely ironic and you are doing a fitting impression of how Thrasymachus would behave if the discussion in the first part of Plato's Republic occurred on social media. You see, you fit very neatly into the role that Thrasymachus fulfills in the Republic; the person who is angered by perfectly reasonable, indeed inevitable questions for someone who seeks to arrive at truth. So, thank you for that as well.

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Emotions are a fact, they don't care about how you feel about their existence. You're not a Vulcan either.

Emotional intelligence is still intelligence. In fact it is the intelligence that gets things done, wins wars, and generates progress from what I can see throughout history. Sometime it can be manipulated, yes. Which is what I believe people see you as doing when you come here 'just asking questions' which are answered in the main article, and then try and shift it around by making disingenuous assertions about the emotions people are or are not feeling when in discussions with you.

As shown in the thread above, I answered your question with a quote from the article and you acted like it was something you only just saw. How good at research can you be if I literally have to quote the article you're commenting on to answer the question you're asking?

Now, you could have ignorance about how "Make [Noun] Great Again" is a slogan of the right wing, and that is certainly something I could have made clearer in the article with its connections with the modern right wing in America for the average reader.

But forgive me if I believe this ignorance you are presenting is disingenuous as much as your allegations on emotions of other commentators. To keep the theme going, I end with a simple question: Doesn't it seem a bit odd that someone who's throwing the word "Thrasymachus" around doesn't know pretty basic modern political prose in the U.S. and its ties to the modern right wing?

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Even though it's a 'boy who cried wolf' situation, I pursue each and every lead, every claim, every link, tweet, etc. I can not pursue all of them immediately. I have a dozen tabs open for webpages that I mean to look at but have not had time to look at yet. But I will. So thanks again for that. You may just be crying wolf, but I will check anyway because that is what someone who is sincerely interested in the truth does.

Have you actually went to Telegram to see what this person posted/commented? I tried. Have you? To get an account on Telegram, they require a phone number. So I ordered myself a disposable phone and some minutes so I can sign up and go look. Waiting for that to arrive. By your "logic", if you do join up to see for yourself, you become right wing or alt-right or far-right or whatever. So you have put yourself in a position where you can't go see for yourself. You simply believe. You have faith based on emotions, not reason based on fact.

Lots of people go to political discussion groups not to agree but to disagree, to debate. Maybe the guy went to the group to, as he has for decades, argue against Christianity and to argue against "podunk america" and "hicks". Ever think of that? No? Too busy feeling your little feelings to think?

You are factually incorrect about my motivation, exactly like Thrasymachus. You are wrong about me and my perfectly valid questions for the exact same reason why Thrasymachus was so emotional and wrong about Socrates and his valid questions. I bet you would force me to drink hemlock if you could. It is a fault in you, not in myself. I suggest you get over it and rise to the level of a mature, rational, intellectually honest and sincere adult who is worthy of being taken seriously.

No matter how strongly your emotions override your reason, you will not make untrue things true. Your emotions do not make you right. They make you wrong.

All you are doing is demonstrating that you're not credible. Because of your display of incredibility in these comments, people might assume that your little essay above is just propaganda and lies.

Well, I suggest you stop being so wrong, dry up the tears, look at the evidence with a rational mindset and stop being such a silly little jerk like Thrasymachus.

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I'd 'look at the evidence', but the problem is you have provided none.

You're not Socrates.

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Oh, by the way, you wrote that I am engaging in "Socratic rape." The fact that you wrote that speaks volumes.

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You're not Socrates.

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I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to need some more sources on your characterization of this Thrasymachus. Your only source that he was angered by Socrates's "perfectly reasoned" questions is Plato, and we all know that guy was a Socrates fanboy, which you also seem to be. This is very sloppy of you that would allow you and your source's bias against Thrasymachus to get in the way of the truth about Thrasymachus, which is the only people who bring him up in conversation are fucking pretentious assholes.

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Whether or not Thrasymachus was real and whether or not he ever said those things is beside the point.

I suggest that you read the first book of The Republic by Plato and see for yourself. Plato was showing an example of how some people get angry when other people sincerely examine certain assumptions that should be examined. In the book, Thrasymachus was upset about the questions Socrates asked for the same reason why Sonious is upset about my questions.

Again, I asking questions that journalists or any person who wants the truth not only has a right to ask, but has the responsibility to ask. It seems that some people demand that other people just believe them and demand that people do not seek the truth for themselves. Why should I just believe Sonious when they demonstrate that they lack credibility?

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You're not Socrates.

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Yeah, one good question a journalist might ask is, uh, who the fuck are you? No, really. An anonymous person does not get to ask "seeking the truth" when they are not willing to share their own truth.

You are not acting like a journalist. You are not acting like a seeker of truth. We do not trust you because we do not know you.

You can not seek truth if you are immune to the consequences of truth.

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I think it's a bit more pretentious for the fact the conversation went.

"You're not Socrates"

"Yeah, well your [Socrates' Rival] because you said that to criticize me."

I mean, it shows that yes, he literally thinks he's Socrates.

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It was you who compared me to Socrates and who wrote that I engaged in "Socratic rape."

You can't be taken seriously.

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So you're saying you're not Socrates?

Because then we would agree.

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Again, it was you, not I who brought Socrates up, Thrasymachus. Please tell me more about this "Socratic rape" I engaged in.

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If you're calling me Thrasymachus, then you are of the belief you are Socrates.

You are not Socrates.

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Have you actually went to Telegram to see what this person posted/commented? I tried. Have you? To get an account on Telegram, they require a phone number. So I ordered myself a disposable phone and some minutes so I can sign up and go look. Waiting for that to arrive. By your "logic", if you do join up to see for yourself, you become right wing or alt-right or far-right or whatever. So you have put yourself in a position where you can't go see for yourself. You simply believe. You have faith based on emotions, not reason based on fact.

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if you sign up for telegram and then join Make Furries Great Again you're not going to be able to see their historical posts, just the ones that they make after you join their group. This is basic functionality of Telegram that most users know, so I want you to know this so you don't in essence waste your money like you're wasting your time in trying to prove that Ben and Polybun are different people.

Because this comment here insinuates you don't even believe this. Why go digging into all of Polybun's social media words if he is not the gunman? It would be quicker if your shared this evidence you claim to have. I mean, why waste all your time digging up knowledge if you're just going to horde it and then look down on everyone that doesn't have what you have? Seems a bit antithetical to the concept of knowledge to me.

Given this, many will conclude that you're trying to get me to waste my time, and are trying to project empathy on others by *claiming* you're putting more effort in this than I am.

I leave you with this statement I told my bosses [coworkers who actually couldn't fire me] when I worked in retail when they made the slogan "Working Harder for You."

The person who works harder builds a bridge over a creek. The person who works smarter steps over it.

And you're not Socrates.

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So, I am supposed to just have faith that this content existed on Telegram? No thanks. Faith is for fools. No, thank you. I am hoping that by using archive websites I can access some of the older content of that group and/or content from polybun on Telegram if it existed, thank you.

You have yet to answer my question. Have you signed on to Telegram to see for yourself?

You have no rational reason to think I am trying to prove that Benjamin J Smith is not polyhead on LiveJournal and/or polybun on Reddit and/or poly bun on Youtube, etc. Obviously, you are projecting your own intellectual dishonesty and partisanship onto me, Thrasymachus. In fact, I came back here to offer the following evidence I found that Benjamin J Smith is polyhead and/or polybun and/or poly bun. Here's an article published in 2005 by Willamette Week headlined STILL BOMBING AFTER ALL THESE YEARS by Brandon Hartley.

It is about a group bike ride in Portland, Oregon. In this article, they quote, “Ben "Polyhead" Smith.” Based on the user name, it would seem, then, that this Ben Smith is the person who made the LiveJournal entries as “Polyhead” and the person who went by “Polybun” on Reddit based on the fact that it all seems to have been written by the same person.

I have already answered your first question and you have yet to answer mine, though I have asked a few times now.

You're more than welcome to look at the info I have gathered, even though, as we agree, you and I have access to the same social media content. But I can give you links to polyhead's LiveJournal entries and/or polybun's Reddit. Also, I have a couple of archives of a Youtube account named poly bun including the channels that account was subscribed to. It seems Andy Ngo is not a channel poly bun subscribed to.

I am not saying that Benjamin J Smith did not switch from supporting the Democrat party and the ACLU, from being against Christianity and from deriding "podunk america" to becoming a right winger. I am saying so far the evidence does not show that. YOU, however, are claiming that he was or became right wing. But you offer ZERO evidence. Hearsay is not evidence. Images that are supposed to be screenshots can easily be faked. You have nothing but unseemly emotional demands.

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You don't know how Telegram works. You know what, go buy that burner phone, knock yourself out.

I did answer your question it's right here:

Did I really just need to link you to a comment where I linked you to the article?

You never answered the question I ended that comment with, FYI.

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Yes, I do not know ho Telegram works (yet). You are correct about that.

When you claim to have answered my question, you are incorrect. You did not answer that question. But you now suggest that the answer is no, that you did not go to Telegram or at least that you did not go to that group because, you wrote, "people who disagree with those philosophies would not be in those rooms."

You're wrong. I am not right wing, yet I debate right wingers in right wing groups. I am not a furry, yet I am here. Your claim is absurd. Also, it shows that you are an intellectual coward. My level of respect for you has just sunk even lower.

Anyway, you are acknowledging that you do not actually know. You just believe. I have to wonder what other things you believe are true that are not true. It's obvious WHY you choose to believe something that you do not know is true or false - partisanship, bias, tribalism. You have a side and you are fighting for that side against the other side. This PROVES without a shadow of a doubt that you are dishonest, insincere, biased, and have ZERO CREDIBILITY.

It comes down to this - YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS TRUE and yet you are trying to convince other people to believe what you believe. Good people do not do that. I suggest that you become a decent human being.

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May want to talk to yourself about consistent messaging:

Yes, I do not know ho Telegram works (yet). You are correct about that.


This PROVES without a shadow of a doubt that you are dishonest, insincere, biased, and have ZERO CREDIBILITY.

It comes down to this - YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS TRUE

So a person with zero credibility was correct about something earlier in your comment? Both of those things can't be true at the same time.

Also, I'm going to assume you are aware that typing in all caps is a way to convey the emotion of anger? Wasn't that something you criticized me of earlier? Who was it you said that was earlier in this comment section of those who act in anger?

you fit very neatly into the role that Thrasymachus fulfills in the Republic; the person who is angered by perfectly reasonable, indeed inevitable questions for someone who seeks to arrive at truth. -

This will be my last post to you for this article here, but I will end on what now should be very much clear.

You are not Socrates.

Good day, sir.

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But, anyway, it's called radicalization. It happens all the time. The angry young man who hated Bush grew up to be an angrier man who went alt right. That's, uh, not actually weird. Happens all the time.

Even the other troll tried to blame the left for Polybun's radicalization, arguing that leftists in the Fandom pushing him away made him seek out alternative sources of socialization, one group which managed to radicalize him. That even has a grain of truth, as the marginalized are targeted for radicalization, though blaming the entire furry fandom of murder by proxy was a bit much.

My point is that even that troll understood what happened, and he didn't understand sarcasm.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Polybun shot those people because he was antifa? What was this, a false flag operation, and the crisis actors were just really Method? What alternate do you have to "right wing nut job went right wing nut job on some people"?

You haven't presented an alternative because you don't have one because their isn't one.

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I'm not sure it's even appropriate to assign 'right' or 'left', even in the weird context of the past few years of US politics. Polybun looks to be anti-authority. That'd apply whoever's in charge, especially if they're telling people to wear masks or take vaccines. Which happened over this side of the pond despite a secure Conservative majority.

I like to think a lot of these people have gotten COVID seriously enough to re-evaluate their position, or else to no longer have a position, but that might be a forlorn hope.

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I don't think Covid had much to do with this. This was a racial justice protest he attacked. A protest which would also, itself, be anti-authority. So what, then would be his problem there? Yes, I don't think Polybun's politics are very, uh, well thought out, but it's clearly not anti-authoritarian, even if it's not "according to Hoyle" right wing.

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Well, things are not that simple. If you read through polyhead's LiveJournal stuff and polybun's Reddit stuff, you will anti-authoritarian views.

Consider that there is not just one authority to be against. There are many sides. There are many authorities to oppose. There is right wing authoritarianism and there is left wing authoritarianism. One can be against authoritarianism in general, whether it's left or right. One can be against the police, oppose police brutality, be against racism, and also be against antifa.

People tend to have more than one or two dimensions.

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But he wasn't against racism; he shot racial justice protesters. He wasn't against police brutality; I don't know if you're up-to-date with with events more current then Ancient Greek, but police brutality and the current race protests are connected. He may have issues with the police and other forms of authority, but he doesn't seem afraid to wield his own authority, even if that authority was just "I have a gun and you don't" (except, whoops, surprise twist ending).

If you're saying the people he shot were antifa, sure, fine, let's just for the sake of argument go with that, well, first of all, your slip is showing. "I'm totally not racist you guys, but this antifa thing sure sounds scary, shouldn't we worry about them?" is a pretty well worn right wing canard. Now, to be fair, I brought up antifa, but come-on, nobody on the left is worried about anti-fascism, because it's anti-fascist.

But, second of all, your attempts to argue that it's complicated don't seem to be in good faith arguments, but a long winded (and admittedly effective) attempt to sea lion Sonious at best and more likely a rather ham-fisted attempt to obfuscate and muddy the waters of the truth, while brazenly claiming to "seek" it. Which, never mind the possible political motivations for this, I'm going to have to take exception to because that's just rude that you think I'm dumb enough to fall for it. (Green Reaper does like to take everyone at face value, but even if I take you at face value, your argument with Sonious boils down to "don't take everything at face value", so we've reached another "become fascist to fight antifa" moment.)

You and Sonious keep shouting "You haven't answered my question!" "No, you haven't answered my question!" and I'm over here like "There are fucking questions?" You keep telling me "read the ljs" and I'm like who fucking uses LiveJournal anymore, this is old news, and radicalization is a thing, I've already explained this, and, see, FUCKING SEA LION.

Anyway, you managed to seem to actually manage to make Sonious mad, so congratulations on that bit of trolling, but also rude, again. That's really what's upsetting me here, though I'm not sure how you managed it, because, setting aside the probable political motivations and just plain rudeness, you're just kind of a boring fuck.

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A couple of you folks here repeatedly claim that I am not after the truth. But since my last comment, I have basically proved that Ben Smith is polyhead from and LiveJournal and polybun from Reddit.

I also confirmed that the photos that some have been saying are photos of Ben Smith are in fact Ben Smith based on yearbooks from Indiana. Same face, for sure. This connects the dots to the posts by polybun on Reddit where he mentions growing up in Indiana and moving to Portland to get away from what he calls "podunk america".

Also, I point out that, polyhead on LiveJournal and polybun on Reddit show common interests including working as a machinist, polyhead engines, atheism, the LBGTQ community, MOPAR cars, and so on. So, no, I have not been trying to prove that Ben Smith is not polhead and polbun, I did the opposite. Also, I have not been trying to prove that Ben Smith is not right wing.

So, no, I am not trying to deny it. Quite the opposite. I have been trying to verify and I have succeeded.

Oh, and Sonious is a bad person so he/she/it SHOULD be upset. They deserve it. They should become a decent person.

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So you proved the article to be true, and yet you still say I have zero credibility and did not apologize for this?

Forgive me if I don't take lessons of decency from you.

Also there is an irony of calling someone a bad person and wishing ill on them in the shadow of an article about a person who killed an elderly woman.

There are worse people I could be. Clearly.

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Incorrect. I confirmed that not all of the article is false. That is far from confirming that the article is right. Also, you did not prove that the article is right. It would be funny if I succeeded where you failed by proving the article is right. But no, I have not proven that.

Furthermore, you did not provide the proof for important claims. Claims require evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Even if you were right about every detail, you still expect people to just believe you. That's wrong. People should not just believe. That leads to bad things such as the belief that being gay is a sin. To hell with that. Don't believe. Know.

So you are in the camp of those who want people to believe them despite the lack of evidence. So you are in the camp with priests, popes, witch-hunters, lynch mobs, and so on.

So yes, you are a bad person because you have zero respect for what is true and what is false and you demand that other people believe what you tell them to believe.

You are a bad person because you have zero respect for justice. Justice is not possible unless it is based on truth, on facts. You demand that people simply believe you based on emotions.

If you cared about justice, you would not be behaving like a person with the emotional intelligence of a toddler about it. You would be sincere, intellectually honest, and not hostile about the idea of finding the truth.

So yes, you are a bad person. Become a decent person.

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Once again you're being inconsistent with your so called 'facts'

This PROVES without a shadow of a doubt that you are dishonest, insincere, biased, and have ZERO CREDIBILITY.


I confirmed that not all of the article is false.

So I will explain to you that zero means 'no' or 0%. So if you later declare that "well there is some truth in there". It means that your claim of zero credibility has zero credibility, and was in fact based on emotion. Which is emphasized by the words being in all caps.

Once again you are accusing me of having emotions when you are the one shouting in the comment section at me with all uppercase letters. And the fact that you think emotions is equal to 'evil' or 'unjust' means you don't know how emotions work. And once again, I'm not going to take lessons of decency from someone who is speaking about emotions like a sociopath.

Sorry I made you angry, even if you don't want to admit to everyone you're angry because you live amongst people who believe winning internet arguments is the meaning of life and have told you to never show 'weakness'. But you came in here swinging at the integrity of my work, and I'm going to defend it.

Also note that a comment section is not a library. You apparently could research and find out that what was said here was true without questioning the integrity of the article or its author.

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Sonious, honey, hate to be a bother, but you did say "this is my last comment" two comments ago.

Do remember, this is a troll; he's not trying to win an argument. He's trying to goad you into keeping the argument going.

If you want to dunk on him, whatever, like I got room to talk, but ... why this one? He really is a boring fuck.

And I apologize for this, but you two have spent more time discussing Socrates than the goddamm Epic Rap Battle featuring Socrates, you fucking nerds.

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Because it's spring time and I'm twitter-patted, clearly.

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By now, I have a great deal of evidence that Ben Smith is polyhead on LiveJournal, polybun on Reddit, the person behind, that he used KE7GAL for ham radio, apparently signed his name as Ben "polyhead" smith in some forums and so on but I always welcome more evidence, especially about this hard swing to the far right that the Oregonian reports his brother told them he recently underwent.

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Go ahead and link it, thanks.

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After how many dozens of fucking moronic comments, you've now arrived at the fact everyone already knew BEFORE THE ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN. That was already reported by mainstream journalists, not even just the people inside the fandom who knew Polybun.

Congratulations, einstein?

More like fuck you, troll.

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You are confusing knowledge based on valid evidence with belief based on faith.
Sonious made claims but did not prove his claims.
I found valid evidence and am organizing it all so the readers can see for themselves.
BIG difference.

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Just because you do not understand the evidence does not mean it is not evidence. I linked to you, three times now, the evidence in the article.

To say that say that evidence is not evidence just because it does not fall under your world view or understanding is not a problem of the person presenting the evidence.

I'm going to guess you are a by-product of Common Core education methods. No, just because I didn't use the method you wanted me to use, does not mean my answer is incorrect.

My apologies our education system let you down.

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Your article links directly to a comment from Polybun in which he wrote that Furp, "was not a soldier" and so on. That gives us no insight into whether he is left wing or right wing or neither.

Other than that, you do not link to any direct evidence.

First you link to Triss Winter's thread may be true. But we don't know. So Winters's claims are claims without supporting evidence.

Next you link to that Reuters article. It does not offer any valid evidence about the guy's political views.

Next you link to that tweet that shows law enforcement at the apartment.

Next is the comment about Furp. That is direct evidence that a Polybun wrote that. * shrug *

Next is the thread by @ariadneconill which also does not establish the guy's political views.

Next is a Rolling Stone article behind a paywall. But that article references anti-Semitic remarks. For that, they link to the Daily Beast article which links to the Oregonian for more on the alleged remarks but that article is behind a paywall. If one does enough searching, one finds images being circulated that seem to be screenshots of anti-Semitic remarks. They could be real, but we don't know. But at any rate, the right tends to support Israel and the left tends to support Palestine. Palestine, Hamas, and the Muslim Brotherhood which they belong to all are rabidly anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitism is not a right wing thing.

Next you link to images that are allegedly screenshots of a source that you have already said is right-wing making a statement about the guy. The statement, assuming it is legit, does nothing to establish the guy's political views.

Then you link to some silly Ninja Turtle video.

Finally you link to a tweet which seems to have screenshots that show Polybun making a statement against Antifa, about the need to be faster on the draw than they are so they don't kill you. Assuming this is a real screenshot, it also does not establish that he is right wing.

Antifa likes to say "liberals get the bullet too". Antifa and the left-wing do not neatly overlap. Not all leftists are far-leftists. There's no shortage of sane leftists who oppose the use of violence to force people to not engage in their right to gather and enjoy their freedom of speech.

So, what evidence? You offer no evidence that the guy is right wing. But if you have some, please give it to me.

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...And then next I linked to the comment clarifying the spot in the article where it shows his connection with alt-right furry groups, and explain why the group is an alt-right furry group.

For the fourth time now.

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You made claims. Anyone can claim anything about anything, silly. That doesn't make it true.

First of all, you don't link to the group or messages in the group or anything else. You just expect people to believe you. That's bad.

Second of all, MAGA is not a fringe thing. It's mainstream right wing stuff, not alt-right.

Thirdly, let's pretend that MAGA is alt-right for a moment. OK. If the group does actually exist with that name, you still don't actually know if it is an alt-right group. The title could be mocking Trumpers. You do know that satire exists, right? What if it's an irreverent satirical group.

Fourthly, if it is real group and it is an alt-right group, that does not prove that all people in the group are alt-right any more than my presence here proves I am a furry. It's very common for group members to argue against the group.

Finally, yet again, all you did is make claims. Anyone can claim that you're a wife-beating puppy-kicker. That does not mean that you are.

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The below statement is factually incorrect.

First of all, you don't link to the group or messages in the group or anything else. You just expect people to believe you. That's bad

Linking this a fifth time because the sentence that I quoted there in the original article has a link in it.

Are you blocked from viewing the tweet? That's why I posted the blockquote in the article as well, because hey, sometimes people get blocked from people and they have a right to know what is going on in spite of being blocked by others on social media. Others may not use Twitter or Facebook at all and they still have a right to know. You know, because I'm such a 'bad guy', as some have claimed.

Did Cani Lupis dispute the quote and state that his statement was fabricated? Currently, you're the only one claiming the quote is false.

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Are you sober? You seem to be catching some of what I write but not the most important parts. I will repeat myself for your sake this time. I probably won't repeat myself again for your sake. Enough is enough.

As I wrote above, "...Next you link to images that are allegedly screenshots of a source that you have already said is right-wing making a statement about the guy. The statement, assuming it is legit, does nothing to establish the guy's political views."


"Finally you link to a tweet which seems to have screenshots that show Polybun making a statement against Antifa, about the need to be faster on the draw than they are so they don't kill you. Assuming this is a real screenshot, it also does not establish that he is right wing..."

The only valid evidence you offer for what Polybun wrote is the link to what Polybun wrote about Furp. That also does not establish Smith as right wing.

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Are you sober?

Wow, not only is this gaslighting, this is also a claim per rhetorical implication that I'm not sober.

I'm a loser teetotaler by the way. Thanks for asking.

I'm starting to think all your talk of logic and stuff is virtue signaling in a literal sense. Because most machines of logic on Star Trek who are presented with so much logic inconstancies in their own behaviors would have had the decency to terminate themselves at this point.

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As I wrote above, "...Next you link to images that are allegedly screenshots of a source that you have already said is right-wing making a statement about the guy. The statement, assuming it is legit, does nothing to establish the guy's political views."


"Finally you link to a tweet which seems to have screenshots that show Polybun making a statement against Antifa, about the need to be faster on the draw than they are so they don't kill you. Assuming this is a real screenshot, it also does not establish that he is right wing..."

The only valid evidence you offer for what Polybun wrote is the link to what Polybun wrote about Furp. That also does not establish Smith as right wing.

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1) That's not "as your wrote above", gaslighter. You forgot the gaslighty bit.

2) I explain why Polybun being active in a chat up to the shooting called "Make Furry Great Again" would implicate they had alt-right ideologies.

2a) Sixth time I've posted this link by the way.

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OK, well, if you ever come up with anything valid, please let me know. Thanks.

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And if you ever stop making claims about people you don't know like a "whiny liberal snowflake who can't deal with facts", let us know.

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Yeah. Ya got nuthin'.

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Keep having faith that you have literacy. The fact is you don't.


Okay you got me, I'm not good at purposefully trolling people, I was just trying to have 73 more back and froths so that this ends up on the front page's historical debate section.

Doesn't looks like I'll succeed at this point. Was worth a shot.

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On the other hand, some things can actually be demonstrated. If one looks through Polyhead's LiveJournal entries, one sees some racist comments, for example, and that he claimed to be black, is apparently gay or bi, loves guns, hates himself, seemed suicidal, and more.

Also, he wrote,

“So, I got a job doing leftist pollitical canvassing. Its kind of cool, since I am collecting for places like the ACLU and the democratic party and such...”

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We did go over this too, at least I get to share a different link this time:

It's like the comment you said where "leftist tend to be pro-Palestine" which to me it usually has to do more with their views on imperialism rather than if they are "left". Neoliberals may very well be pro-Israeli since it's a "wealthy democracy". Both anti-imperialists and neoliberals tend to be "leftist", but on the middle east conflict they would not be further apart.

But if a person is hanging out in a chat that unironically indicates they want to "Make [X] Great Again", they probably became alt-right at some point in their journey.

People can change in a decade.

I have another quote that I came up with in order to give myself a better foundation on life and the passage of time.

"You are born with someone loving you and someone hating you. You will die with someone loving you and someone hating you. Life is the changes in who those people are."

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Ya got nuthin'.

There you go again making references to hearsay and empty claims.

Ya got nuthin'.

You can't prove your claims that he is right wing. He may be right wing but you offer nothing but claims and get mad when people want you to support your claims.

Ya got nuthin'.

Meanwhile, anyone can verify that Polyhead wrote racist stuff and wrote “So, I got a job doing leftist pollitical canvassing. Its kind of cool, since I am collecting for places like the ACLU and the democratic party and such...” by using this link -

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This guy's a loser piece of shit, just here to be a nuisance by sealioning.

He also suspiciously resembles a Justin who is with a vanity "furry news" thing from Singapore whose members includes Flayrah's own whackadoodle

Since he's so hung up on "proof" (of things we already know) we can let "Justin" prove who he is if he wants to be taken seriously ;)

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Pawsry having any kind of relation with Ahmar's blog is news to me. Seems like Ahmar has permission to post GFTV items to the blog?

Given the amount of other YouTube content Ahmar posts on the blog randomly (including non-furry items like Extra Credit/History bits) not sure why they'd need to go through and make it official in any capacity.

Ahmar tends to want to get their name in the pot, and doesn't like anyone who's critical of them. GFTV is a pretty young project, that I think is looking to expand.

Given the critical view Flayrah and Dog Patch have given Ahmar, I'm sure he approached GFTV with his Furry Times and wanted to ask affiliation. I'm not sure if Pawsry did too much research, but he too is probably also wanting to expand his audience.

But mindless expansionism, I feel personally, is one of the problems with modern journalism. It should not be about the numbers or trying to get them, it should be about trying to have decent content that informs people about what is going on.

Expansionism isn't as big a problem as proselytizing, which I will admit I've fallen short of in some cases, but it is an issue none the less.

Ain't no rest for the wicked, money don't grow on tree, etcetra

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correspondant ahmar

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You are literally hostile to facts and truth. How do you live with yourself?

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Oh, and the fact that you claim that I am, "claiming the quote is false" proves that you don't know what you're talking about. You seem to know what you are talking about on the surface, but when one looks at the details, one sees that you're wrong about important details.

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Good points. It is at least very tricky to deal with left vs right in recent years. Yes, polyhead seemed to be anti-authoritarian for sure. In fact, he seems to be (or to have been) in the anti-authoritarian left quadrant of the political compass, base don what polyhead wrote on LiveJournal for years, yes.

If one thinks only in terms of left vs right, it may be hard to understand where certain people lie on the political compass. For example, an anti-authoritarian left-wing person may express antipathy against the Biden administration. That does not mean they are right wing. But some people may think that anyone who opposes Biden is right wing.

An authoritarian right wing person may defend lockdown policies, vaccines and masking requirements. That may make that person seem to be left wing to some people.

So, yes, you are correct.

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Yes, that does happen. People do swing from one side to the other. Correct. So I am looking for evidence that this person swung to the right.

I have not encountered any claims that he is antifa. Polyhead on LiveJournal and Polybun on Reddit showed a person who was not political enough to be antifa and a person who had too much contempt for that sort of thing.

I am not trying to make a point. I am looking for evidence about polyhead/polybun/poly bun. I have found evidence that polyhead is Benjamin J Smith. I could use more. I also want to see any evidence that he changed his political views in recent years.

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Your article is dripping with your leftist bias. But I'm not sure where to begin, since you weaved it so subtly between the lines.

You call him alt-right in the headline and link to an article saying he's a white supremacist.

However, the police said they have no evidence of his political ideology, and the woman calling him a white supremacist is Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty.

Jo Ann Hardesty is a leftist who has socialist propaganda all over her twitter account, so she can be dismissed as a lying scumbag who will say anything.

You also make this weird effort to assign a ton of significance to "Um, actually he wasn't a home owner", trying to re-paint the picture to imply that he had to walk a significant distance from his home in search of this altercation and that the "protesters" hadn't come near his home.

However, police merely corrected that he is a "resident", not a "home owner".

If we look at it on google maps, we see that Rose City Terrace is diagonally right next to Normandale Park.

It's unknown where exactly he was and where exactly the "protesters" were, since the media are so vague on the details. But it's within the realm of possibility that it happened close to where he lived.

Let's see... let's not forget that after the shooting, antifa picked up the shells and ran away and refused to cooperate with the police.

Let's also not forget that when the police held a press conference, antifa showed up and disrupted the press conference to stop the police from telling the public what they knew.

So... you have no evidence that he is an alt-right, a nazi, a fascist, or a white supremacist, etc etc.

Then you create (out of nowhere) this slander of referring to Trump supporters as alt-right.

Then you do this circular reasoning guilt-by-association thing, where He's an alt-right because They're an alt-right because He's an alt-right because They're an alt-right, because because because...

Being angry at the Marxist Antifa organization and the Marxist Black Lives Matter organization just means you're a rational human being who has morals and empathy. We watched them burn and loot our cities and beat and murder Trump supporters (and other random people) all throughout 2020.

You don't get to pretend this happened in a vacuum for no reason and that your side did nothing to provoke it.

You don't get to take leftists on twitters' opinions of him as gospel and then take rightists' opinion of him on Telegram as proof that Trump supporters are fascists.

It's not "nazis" and "alt-rights" who are murderously enraged at you scumbags. Every normal human being who has been paying attention for the last several years are murderously enraged at you scumbags.

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(Trying to be less flamey to see if it goes through this time.)

You thought it was the flames, but it was me, Dio! mentioning socialism, because it contains popularly-spammed 'cialis'.

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Bet you feel silly, now, Amaroq! You all coming at us with this "lefty liberal agenda", and we don't even SAY THAT WORD! It's a bad word that gets auto-blocked by the site itself! Get that woke, SJW word out of our comment section, you SNOWFLAKE!

If you just HAVE to talk about it (why, I don't know!), but if you just HAVE to talk about it, it's the "dick pill agenda"! Jeez!

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That ending sentence that indicates "everyone want to murder 'the left'" after spending the entire comment trying to prove that murderous tendencies growing in the right wing of America is merely propaganda? 10/10.

Also believing that I am left wing is pretty presumptuous. At least when I indicated Polybun was in the "right wing" I gave an example of a rightwing chatroom he was hanging out in as an active member prior to their stint. You got a whole lot of nothing.

The partisanism in America is an artificial construct created to keep a social class within a confines of power while the rest of us have to pick up the pieces after those they radicalize tear through our communities. Or as you just said are "murderously enraged".

If this murderous tenancy is "normal" though, why are you trying to deny it in the rest of your comment? If the left are scum as you say, why try and disassociate and outcast when one of your soldiers casts the bullet?

That's the thing that those in the right wing who are radicalized need to realize. They'll see you as one of them while they push you to a murderous frenzy, but if you act on it, well then you're Anti-Fa. You've filled your purpose and are no longer useful to them.

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Report Amaroq64's threats against elected officials:

Amaroq64 is:

Steven R. Swenson
DOB: 06/24/1986
521 Maple St, Apt 104A, Red Wing, MN 55066
Previously 312 E Forest St, Marengo, IL 60152 until 2016
(425) 941-2705
Criminal charge filed on on 11/5/2013 Goodhue County Case # 25VB135207
Relative Jennifer L Swenson, New Albany, OH, Born in December 1987
Relative Marty A Williams Jr, Carpentersville, IL, Born in January 1959

Steven targets elected official and candidate for violence:

Free speech hating Steven threatens violence on someone for their opinion that guns didn't save kids:

Violent Steven wants to physically attack Biden voters:

Sick Steven wants to see people die by hanging:

You can report Steven's tweets to Twitter for violence, and add these for the count:

This comment is civil free speech, and here's Steven's post about Civility in online discussions:

Steven is known and tracked for activity inside the Furry Raiders and altfurry white supremacist groups, and these are in his file.

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Go fuck yourself.

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