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Music cut from 2023 Ursa Major Awards after 'squabbling'

Edited as of Tue 9 Apr 2024 - 06:21
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Ursa Major Awards banner by EosFoxx Voting opened March 1 for the 2023 Ursa Major Awards - but the event intended to identify and celebrate the best works featuring non-human beings given human attributes has been marred by drama, well before the close of voting on its popularly-selected nominees on March 24.

Update (Apr 9): The winners have been announced.

Initially, there were fifteen award categories, but the Music category was removed five days after nominees were announced:

The organization posted an additional explanation on its front page:

It's important to remember that the Ursa Major Awards (like so many other awards) are designed to celebrate and recognize great works, not to judge the character or personality of creators. Unfortunately, the personal squabbling, attacks, and counter-attacks have reached a fever pitch in the Best Music Category this year. The staff of the ALAA have made the unfortunate observation that the category has been compromised, and so we have made the difficult decision to cancel the Best Music category for works from last year (2023). We fully intend to attempt the award in that category again next year (for works from 2024), hopefully with some better controls in place. We apologize to all the music creators out there, and we thank all of our nominators and voters for their patience.

The formerly-nominated works within the cancelled category were:

Klace, who cut business ties with Cassidy Civet after comments made during a dispute over the definition of furry music, also requested removal of his Best Game nominee Komorebi (which contained some songs from Triple Threat which Cassidy had written).

2023 Ursa Major Award nominees

Open for voting through March 24.

Best Motion Picture

Live-action or animated feature-length movies.

Best Dramatic Short Work

One-shots, advertisements or short videos.

Best Dramatic Series

TV or YouTube series videos.

Best Novel

Written works of 40,000 words or more. Serialized novels qualify only for the year that the final chapter is published.

Best Short Fiction

Stories less than 40,000 words, poetry, and other short Written works.

Best General Literary Work

Story collections, comic collections, graphic novels, non-fiction works, and serialized online stories.

Best Non-Fiction Work

Best Graphic Story

Includes comic books, and serialized online stories.

Best Comic Strip

Newspaper-style strips, including those with ongoing arcs.

Best Magazine

Edited collections of creative and/or informational works by various people, professional or amateur, published in print or online in written, pictorial or audio-visual form.

Best Visual Art

Illustrations for books, magazines, convention program books, cover art for such, coffee-table portfolios.

Best Game

Computer or console games, role-playing games, board games.

Best Website

Online collections of art, stories, and other creative and/or informational works. Includes galleries, story archives, directories, blogs, and personal sites.

Best Anthropomorphic Fursuit


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They also removed the Music section from the recommended list for the year as well.

After Soatok highlighted the a particular rallying civet tweet appeared to have bots liking it, I was wondering if there was another reason other than the flare up that the section was removed. As noted in a prior article the system is pretty susceptible to social engineering for a highly motivated individual; who always tend to say the line "I care about the award more than [the ALAA] do". Yeah, that's not necessarily a good thing, especially if a person (or their fan[s]) cares about an award so much they'll take advantage of a system.

We're seeing more and more, both inside the fandom and in general, that democracy only works when the populous itself is honorable and honors the intent of the systems instead of gamifying it for their own ends.

Chivalry truly is dead.

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Y'know, I deleted twitter off my phone the same day I posted that tweet. I didn't look at it again until like a few days later. It would be a very funny thing for someone to pay bots to like the tweet. Bravo to whoever did. But that's a stupid thing for me to do, it's sooooooo obvious. This is a fandom full of IT people.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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I guess my worries about The Boy and the Heron not making the recommended list were at least somewhat justified, though looking at the nominees, eh, I can see all of them being legitimately more popular (even I would've placed my number one vote elsewhere). Of course, I find this amusing because furries like to bend over backwards claiming some of Miyazaki's way less furry stuff is (Spirited Away was nominated, and though it's obviously a great movie, I don't think I would have reviewed it for Flayrah ... which was kind of Wild West at the time, but boy I'm drifting). Miyazaki didn't bother to show up for his Oscar for the movie, so I really doubt he's upset at missing the Ursa Major.

Also, looks like we decided A Fox in Space wasn't a movie (it wasn't, but Green Reaper did eventually make some good points about its possible category fraud).

I feel sorry for Patricia Taxxon here, who seems to have been innocent, and to a lesser extent the Lowds, who's rescinding of an honor wasn't even Mary's fault this time.

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Oh, and Helluva Boss apparently just won something called a Queerty, so good for them!

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Is the award shaped like a keyboard? That would be hilarious.

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Also it's important to note that the comments that were made was that Cassidy had invoked the recently passed Mark Merlino to try and defend her more restrictive definition of furry music. People in general did not react positively to such an act, including those who knew him intimately. This also soured Klace's relation to her. In response Cassidy decided to invoke Klace's race (incorrectly, but still) to disparage his position.

It was quite and ugly feud, and it caused headaches for Vancouver (who eventually Klace and them came to terms). I had published a video on my channel on the affair prior to the publication of this article.

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Honestly, I'm still like, "Okay, that's the one that got her canceled? Like, have you met her?"

We're still Internet friends, I don't give a shit, but she can be a little pill sometimes.

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I would argue that, while she could have a leg to stand on if she's miffing the feathers of some convention board and declare her as just a loud outsider being brought down by 'the man', man.

It's a whole other thing when a fellow content creator who basically has a lot in common with you (both appear to be affluent Vancouver natives who both create furry content and music). In that case, it's a lot harder to counter that it's some big conspiracy against her.

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I worry about the folks who run the ALAA/Ursa Major Awards getting caught in all this flak.

To be honest, it would not surprise me if they decide to just pull the plug on the whole thing and be done with it.

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Preface this with this comment is also in reply to Sonious's comment upthread, I'm just combining my replies, so if you're reading this and think to yourself "what the fuck, I wasn't talking about that at all", well, yes, actually, I may not be talking to you at all specifically at the moment (alternatively, I may all just be rambling incoherently, that does happen).

I'm not sure if you're talking about "pulling the plug" on the Ursa Majors as a whole, or just the Music category. I mean, both seem possibilities. Following the "Carry On" drama two years back, yes, they may get sick of all the drama, but even if they just decide to "Carry On" themselves, well, they did note that funding has been an issue for a while. (I see Kathy Garrison has returned to her category after a year of absence, and she didn't get greedy this time so best of luck to her, genuinely, I mean, I don't really have a horse in that race, anyway.) I think the Leos shuttering this year (though they were smaller, more specific and younger, with less momentum behind them) kind of had a damning line in their final post with "there are more writers than readers" and though I think they meant "reader judges for our award" I think it's very possible they did not (I mean, I'm pretty well aware I write for an "organization" who's viewcounts sometimes reach high double digits on a good day).

But that also brings me to the actual Music category, which is, ironically, a category that neither the average voter nor the awards administrators either wanted or much cared about, they just got bullied into it by a couple of musicians (including definitely Cassidy, and given Klace's history with the awards, I'm sure he chimed in a bit). Like, that drama grew out of argument about what constitutes "furry music" is ironic, because to most furries, music isn't furry.

I've already said I'm Internet friends with Cassidy, but that mostly means reading reposted Tweets from musicians complaining they don't get any respect from furries, and honestly, no, you don't get any respect. Like, great, you did a DJ set for a dance or even a concert; well, I guess we had to do something after most of the main con events were done for the day but before the room parties really start, and karaoke and the stand up open mic were the other nights. The comedians aren't out here arguing for a "Best Stand Up" comedian at the Ursa Majors, because that's stupid. And, theoretically, if I had to pick a side in the "does furry music have to be about furry?" debate, I'd take Cassidy's side, at least she's trying to make it furry, but, once again, only theoretically, because practically, filk usually sucks.

And I kind of have to agree with Howie Mandel (who X-ed Cassidy off the Canada's Got Talent reality competition very quickly, Google it you missed that chapter in this saga), even if he was a jerk about it, asking "why the suit?" I don't get it, either. I get wanting to get up on a stage and sing a song for an audience, and I get wanting to show off your fursuit. But I don't get what they have to do with each other. Okay, I kind of get it, mixing your two major passions makes sense on paper, but not always in practice. But, on the other hand, I mean, if you want to be a "furry musician" but you can't even be bothered to wear the stupid suit or sing stupid songs about foxes, I mean, what's the point? It's like that time I lurked on the wrong thread on and found myself looking at pictures taken at a unofficial room party orgy, and I was horrified to learn nobody was wearing suits. Like, if you're going to spend hundreds of dollars to pay the con fee, pay for a hotel room, travel expenses and copious amounts of lube and condoms, and then not get fucked in a fursuit, what are you even doing?

Okay, we have definitely entered "incoherent rambling" territory, let's try to get back on track.

My point it's a bad category, and reassurances to the contrary it will return, I will not miss it if it doesn't.

Now, as for Cassidy personally, well, like I said, kind of a pill, so you knew this day was coming. Doesn't make it any easier to watch, and also, once again, like, seriously, that's what finally sunk her. The Mark Merlino tweet, (which, I mean, nobody has ever used tragedy to grandstand on the Internet before, jeez), not the calling Klace white, which is actually kind of funny but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to laugh at that. But, anyway, the Merlino tweet was crass and stupid, but about a 3.5 on the "Stupid-Shit-Cassidy-Civet-Has-Tweeted" Scale. Like, I "met" her when she decided me being excited about Zootopia was a crime against furry, somehow. I was younger back in those days, more forgiving, so I decided to be the bigger man and ask her to post a trailer for some stupid documentary she thought mattered, and instead she posted an opinion piece that's pretty hard not to see as a personal attack, even if it really wasn't. Bitch.

Amusing note, but I see re-reading the piece that this is somehow, once again, all Rakuen Growlithe's fault.

Anyway, long story short, a few of the Fursonas documentary backers got it moved out of the movie category into a new "non-fiction" category so it wouldn't have to compete with Zootopia, only to have the documentary get its assed creamed by Zootopia's art book (that has very little bearing on anything, but I just like this part of the story), I forgave Cassidy anyway, even though she is still annoying (she complains about the corporate origins of Zootopia in the piece, which, fair enough, but the Venn diagram of people I follow on Twitter who complain about furries liking corporate properties and complain about furries liking independent success story Helluva Boss is a circle that can simply be labeled "Cassidy the Civet"), and I will still call her a bitch now, because I don't have her back, exactly, but I do still feel sorry for her.

I actually finally met her, for real, about two years ago, at the Tails and Tornadoes convention, and one of the things she told me was how excited she was for her upcoming collaboration with Klace, and I tried to act excited for her, like I really gave a shit, but looking back, I mean, ouch.

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Why did you spend the time writing that shit that not even the people involved are going to read

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even if they just decide to "Carry On" themselves, well, they did note that funding has been an issue for a while

From their front page:

Last year, we came out in the black for the first time due to the many generous donations for which we were very grateful.

That statement was not there last year. So if that were a factor, you might have expected it to be cancelled earlier, not now. But I guess they might always cut their losses while they're ahead?

Also: the first step towards recovery as a commentator is realising that other fans' opinions and beliefs aren't intended as personal slights. The second step is not calling them a bitch anyway. Please keep working at it.

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She literally calls me out by name in the piece I linked to; it doesn't get more personal than that, Green Reaper.

However, while, yes, I totally called her a bitch (for real instead of accidentally like you did that one time), I was making the point we're friends. Like, public spaces and appropriateness, and all, but my point is she's my bitch, you know?

I do think it's important, in case she ever wanders over here again, that her flaws are not exactly forgiven, and definitely not forgotten, but in my case at least she is accepted. (Besides, I'd imagine saying "furry music isn't furry" is actually way more hurtful to her.)

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Fair enough, except she called you "best bud" there, and you... didn't. To me, it's degrading language to a female. You probably know how she'd take it better than I, though; I don't follow her (or really, anyone) on Twitter.

On a lighter note, at least the UMA doesn't have to fork out to send out ballot papers now. (It might be good if they at least let people sign up to be emailed reminders for next year or to vote after nomination.)

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Yes, the gendered aspect of "bitch" is actually problematic, you should have led with that! Furthermore, I can't honestly say how she'd take it, either, and it is meant to be offensive a little (if not in that way), but my point is she's got issues but I'm not letting this incident change our relationship (which is still just Internet friends who met one time). If me calling her a "bitch" did change it for her, however, then obviously we've always deserved each other.

But "best buds" is so obviously sarcastic, I mean, come on, Green Reaper! (Which seems to contradict the whole "we're cool now" argument, but, uh, relationships change over time.)

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Not gonna. We're soldiering on. But, some of our committee are retiring after this year. They've been at this a while and they're, quite frankly, tired.

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Yeah, and I'm probably not giving anyone a really restful feeling, but I do want to say thanks. It's a lot of fun for me, this thing you all do, past present and future, and I appreciate that, and sorry for being so negative around it all the time.

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"Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!" :D I'm glad to hear it, Mink.

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You didn't deserve to go through all this, and I sent a donation during the drama cause I think it just sucks. I understand the purpose of the award is to engage the community, and so when I saw the most prominent voice in the campaign to harass the awards over my (and also Mary Lowd's) inclusion was the person who came LAST in the music category LAST year, it just showed it's ugly jealous face for what it really was. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the awards and still consider it an honor that I had 3 of 5 nominations in the category. And though I know my big mouth is what started this particular shitstorm, as I said in a recent podcast, I worry that the award is community created and inevitably to be community destroyed. The infighting reached a fever pitch, and no one can agree on how to define the things we're trying to honor, or how to exclude and why. It's disheartening but the awards have my support. I want to create genuinely great furry art in this community, and I don't need the whole fandom to like me to do that. But also, the loudest voices rarely represent the majority ;p

Solider on! 🫡

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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You've doubled up a link, so I can't see what the dispute was. It's really confusing because it sounds like people were upset that she invoked a dead person as support for something (I can't comment, not knowing his views or what was actually said) but also because she said furry music should actually be furry.

That last part is the one that is so strange, though I noted long ago that for some reason just being music made by a fur seems to be enough justification to call it furry music by some people ( That just seems stupid. As I said before, my and Uncle Kage's science is not furry science because we are both scientists. A landscape drawn by a fur doesn't become furry art, there does have to be some actual furry content. I don't see why music would be different nor why that should be in any way controversial.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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The link in question has been fixed to be

When you want to be recognised within furry fandom for your music, perhaps in order to get placement at events, I imagine it is somewhat problematic to be excluded. In fairness, furries tend not to be fans of purely furry music at furry events, although perhaps that is because there is relatively little of it, or because the nature of some music does not particularly lend it to anthropomorphism (perhaps we will see more techno howls?).

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Oof, that last line of the tweet was really ill-advised.

If music is hard to "furrify" then maybe it doesn't need to be. There's no need for everything to be furry. People can just enjoy good music the same as we can enjoy good food without it needing to somehow be furry.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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But then there'd be no UMA! (It's telling that there's no description, unlike most categories. I guess fursuit is obvious?)

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It does have something of a description though. "Anthropomorophic themed songs and albums". It's broad but "being furry" is definitely a consideration.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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That description suggests to me that the song itself should be furry-themed in some way in order to qualify, not just any kind of music that happens to have been made by someone who's also a member of the fandom. Things like:

* "The Whale" by Electric Light Orchestra
* "Octopus' Garden" by The Beatles
* "All In A Mouse's Night" by Genesis
* "Muskrat Love" by Captain & Tennile
* "Ben" by Michael Jackson

or, even songs which use animals as a metaphor in some way, like Pink Floyd's "Animals" album (based very heavily on Orwell's "Animal Farm"), "Apeman" by The Kinks, "Three Mules" by Al Stewart, "Barracuda" by Heart, and so on.

Frankly, what I'm hearing there at the link you posted, really shouldn't qualify as "furry music", IMO. The only thing "furry" about it is the cover art.

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I probably shouldn't say anything here, but I would like to point out even "Ben" is a borderline case; in its original context, the titular Ben is obviously a rat, but if you don't know its originally from an otherwise semi-obscure horror flick, and you hear it divorced of the original context, its really easy to assume Ben is human.

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Fair, probably not the best example. I was just trying to come up with songs that were explicitly about animal characters in some way, and was still working on my first cup of coffee when I came up with that list, so it seemed logical at the time. :-)

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"By-Tor and the Snow Dog" by Rush
"Grendel" by Marillion
"The Dolphin Song" by Olivia Newton-John

But really, songs about animals--especially anthropomorphic animals--are pretty thin on the ground.

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Of course, Disney films often have songs by and about anthro characters, like "The Worst Hyena We Know" and "Lions Over All" from "The Lion Guard."

And then there's the immortal, "The Lion Sleeps Tonight."

I'll just leave you with that earworm...

a-weema-way, a-weema-way, a-weema-way, a-weema-way...

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"It's Not Easy Being Green," Kermit the Frog.

"I Hope That Something Better Comes Along," Rowlf the Dog, "The Muppet Movie."

"Inchworm," Danny Kaye.

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Similar to "Ben", but for different reasons, but how do we feel about Camille Saint-Saëns's "Carnival of the Animals" (hearing the "Aquarium" section out of context would probably be more likely to make you think of space than fish now)?

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There are also songs that were written about animals--usually for movie soundtracks--but which, divorced from the source, are ambiguous, like "Bright Eyes" from Watership Down, and "Born Free" from the movie of the same name.

And what about songs that appear to be about animals, but really--aren't? Like the theme song to the caper movie "After The Fox?"

And do we count songs like "Who Let The Dogs Out?" or "What Does The Fox Say?" or "Babyshark?"

(I guess "What Does The Fox Say" really does qualify, now that I've bothered to look up the lyrics.)

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Or how about Jimi Hendrix's "Foxy Lady"?

I got really annoyed with someone who tried to guess my favorite Jimi Hendrix song, knowing I was a furry fan with a thing for foxes, and I even told them it was "a metaphor I take literal", and I still eventually just had to tell them, and she was going into deep cuts, just like, "Foxy Lady" should've come up eventually just as a well-known and popular Hendrix song, and, no, she wasn't doing a bit, she wasn't that clever, though I guess I didn't realize how not clever she was.

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I only remember the "Foxy" bit from that, but then I guess I never held myself out as a music expert. 😅

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So If a song is written about a furry but doesn't use furry nomenclature or wording it doesn't count?

I feel that is a very limiting definition that excludes a -very- large number of furry musical artists.

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They're not excluded; they just have to submit the furry-specific component of their output. We don't expect artists just to do furry art, either. However, their non-furry art is not likely to win a furry award. It's not hard to throw in a few references to the curl of his tail or the touch of her fur, is it?

If you're singing about a furry fan then you're ultimately singing about humans, not anthropomorphic animals - so there better be some fursuiting or roleplay in there, or at least some juicy furry con drama.

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"It's not hard to throw in a few references to the curl of his tail or the touch of her fur, is it?"

God you'd be surprised. Some people are fighting tooth and nail to get the most unfurry normie music imaginable the "furry music" label simply because the artist is a furry, but won't reference it AT ALL in their musical output. The ongoing edit wars of the Wikifur page for "furry music" now have the stated definition of "anything a furry breaths on is automatically furry music :)" but that's just insane to me. Someone asked me before "are you saying all furry music should have furry art??" And gee, that'd be a good start. Maybe we should start there? Thin out the herd a little bit. Cause it's just getting ridiculous to have to placate people or risk online harassment by their friends. Maybe furry music should have to try a little bit to be furry? Just a thought.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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Ok, First off i want to say, thank you for the well thought out reply!

I however do want to request that we avoid snarkiness in our discussion with each-other, I do appreciate the frustration this issue most likely causes you and you have had to deal with for longer period than I have. I am not nor will i ever be ok with the tone you were clearly using when you used a rhetorical question followed by the "just a thought" tag at the end.

It was rude and un-needed.

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I personally have maintained for a musical work to get the label of "furry music" it should be first made by someone that identifies as a "furry", but then has one of the following criteria:

1. Has furry/animal related musical themes or lyrics
2. The artist name is furry/animal related
3. The song artwork is furry/animal related.

We can't even begin the discussion on if something is furry music without the very first thing, but if a furry is making regular music with nothing furry about it at all yet still wants the label of "furry music" for their normie music, well, I just don't think it should count. I liked what Rakuen said about this before, "if it's furry music, say exactly what you'd change about it so it stops being furry", and for people unwilling to make any part of their actual music output furry besides saying "oh yeah I'm a furry, listen to my mixtape", I'm just not interested in entertaining that as "furry music", and much of the fandom would agree with that.

If it excludes a "large number of furry musical artists", then maybe they should try to make their work more obviously furry? Otherwise it's about as furry as any other fandom interest they may have if there's nothing explicitly furry with the music being put out. Period.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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I am perfectly ok with your litmus test actually, and yes I do feel it should need something more than just being by a furry to be furry music. We agree on that point.

So my concern was that there had to furry terminology in the lyrics -always-. Which limits artistic output imho, cause i have a song about an ex of mine who was a fox, the song is called "in Terms of you"
Now it may not directly reference it but you can bet the single cover art is gonna have a red fox on the front.

I just wanted clarification mainly.

Again, I really don't appreciate your tone, I am asking questions -in good faith- I would appreciate it if the hackles could be lowered a bit.

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Thank you, and my apologies. I am trying to avoid that sort of tone when defending my points, I know I come across as aggressive and condescending at times so thanks for the reality check ^^

I don't include a lyric reference in my criteria personally. Mostly because just like in "normies" music, not every song mentions "hands" or "feet", so for every furry song to reference "paws" or "tails" or what have you is a bit excessive imo. It'd still definitely be furry music but at that point it'd be undeniable lol. But then you also have songs like "Bad Touch" which do use terms of animals but aren't really "furry music" made my furries.

But yes, furry or animal related song art should in my opinion, be somewhat expected for a song to be considered "furry music". I'm quite saddened that playlists like "Intro To Furry Music" on Spotify are full of non-furry music being pushed by people unwilling to engage in good faith in this conversation. The fandom should be a means to explore furry creatively, not to force streams on music that does not belong here just because the creator happens to be a "furry".

Again, my apologies for the initial tone!

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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Oh and also, following up my criteria, the artist self identifying as a furry is a MUST for the furry music discussion to even begin. But the music in question does not need to meet all 3 of those criteria per say.

I've said 1 is good, 2 is better and 3 is perfect. But if it's only "yeah I'm totally a furry, here's my mixtape" to me that's bad faith. And people bullying disagreers online that "everything a furry touches is furry!!!" Is a ridiculous standard that isn't held for any other aspect of the fandom.

The extreme of that is that, well there are furry artists in dealers den, or even writers, I don't see human centric content anywhere, but under these forced rules it would seem that we are doomed to have an all human content dealers den one day since the creators are "furry" and that's what they've decided to use their space in the fandom to promote. I think it's dishonest and deliberately taking advantage of the kindness and wallets of the fandom for personal gain.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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Indeed, I do think that a lot of "furry music" winds up being cluttered with people who are... to quote Colson describing himself: "musician[s] who happen to be...furr[ies]".

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Who are you quoting? :0

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

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I don't see why a person being a fur is necessary at all. Their works can stand on its own. If you commission a non-furry artist to draw a picture of your fursona, is that not furry art? Just as not everything a fur creates is going to be furry art/music/writing etc, not everything furry has to be made by a fur.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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It was rude and un-needed.

Sorry, man, welcome to Flayrah comment sections. We've seen a lot of claims of "good faith" from trolls, so, yes, some of us have burned through our good will in general and Cassidy has definitely lost some patience for this particular argument in specific, and honestly coming in here and literally saying "good faith" while digging up an old, painful argument and starting it up again is a pretty common tactic, so pardon us if we're a little paranoid, but also, I'm watching you.

Uh, what I'm saying, this "tone" is pretty low level for us, but, actually, if the comments are a little much, well, had a discussion with dronon last year and, honestly, still think "skip the comments" is not a bad idea and just read the articles; his one is a good place to start (it apparently kicked off the whole discussion, more or less, and note it's almost a decade old at this point) and also you can just try the "music" tag in the archives, with the caveat that tags are also a bit free-form around here so there's probably a lot that is not what you're looking for (and some that might actually be relevant is untagged). Also, Cassidy, as an active furry musician, is probably the correct person to strike up this conversation with, but once again, old and bitter argument, so, yes, hackles are totally up, but if you just continue on in the current manner, I'm sure you'll have a decent conversation, or at least as decent as one gets on the fucking Internet, you know?

Also, aside to Cassidy, subject of art linked to above is not intended to piss you off, but if it does, that's hilarious and you deserve it! Okay, bye!

Your rating: None

The subject of the conversation did not piss me off though wasn't entirely sure if you were speaking to me or Cassidy at the very end.

I literally have performed as a furry musician at TFF, ACFI, BLFC, and TFS. (ACRONYMS!!!) So I don't think i am a troll? :P

Your rating: None

Dude, sometimes you write your comments like the Bible. I'm not sure what to take literally or metaphorically lol

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

And I'm not sure if I should take that pejoratively or complimentary. Also not sure I should've said anything at all, really (I mean, the links might've been useful, though), so I'll let you two get on with the conversation.

But, anyway, aside to Mako, "aside to Cassidy" means that bit was directed at Cassidy specifically, as this bit is directed at you. Basically, I know she doesn't appreciate the character in the "you're new" art I linked too, but didn't think of that until after I posted, and so clarifying the image was not chosen to specifically tweak her (though, once again, if it did, unintentionally funny). On one hand, the image was aimed at you, Mako, but on the other hand, I hardly think you should be "pissed off" as it is meant, to use your word, as "snark", but it's because snark is fun and not actually meant with malice.

You know if you're a troll or not, but I didn't know that. That's the trouble with trolls; they can look just like anyone else when they want to.

Finally, another aside to Cassidy, but asides are more Shakespearean than Biblical.

Your rating: None

So kind of to deviate back on topic a little bit.

To Crossaffliction,

If you were to pick the best Anthro Film that is NOT listed in the Nominations above, which one would it be?

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

I'm not sure why you're asking, because I thought I was pretty clear; The Boy and the Heron. But it would be second behind another nominated movie that should be obvious.

Your rating: None

Motion Picture

  1. Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 3
  2. Leo
  3. Migration

Partly about availability (since I have Netflix)

Dramatic Short Work

  1. Lackadaisy (Pilot)
  2. A Fox In Space - Episode Two - Fixing a Hole
  3. Tamberlane

Meeps is more accomplished than at least Tamberlane, but it's also a huge paid team effort.

Dramatic Series

  1. Helluva Boss
  2. Bluey - Season 3
  3. Adventure Time: Fionna and Cake


  1. Rafts
  2. You're Cordially Invited to Crossroads Station
  3. Otters In Space 4: First Moustranaut

Short Fiction

  1. Of Heart and Stone
  2. How Pepper Learned Magic
  3. Aged Plant Fibers and Ink

Always surprised these don't get more votes when you can usually just read them for free, which is more than you can say for most movies.

General Literary Work

  1. Zooscape Volume One
  2. Gnoll Tales
  3. Some Words Burn Brightly

Non-Fiction Work

  1. Furscience
  2. Furry Planet
  3. On Furries and The Media

Unsure whether an award for Furscience would validate the work of the IARP or the reverse, because they're no longer uninvolved.

Graphic Story

  1. Tamberlane
  2. Silverwing: The Graphic Novel
  3. Slightly Damned

I also read TwoKinds... but TBH it has a lot of awards already.

Comic Strip

  1. The Whiteboard
  2. Freefall
  3. Foxes in Love

Unfortunate that Out Of Placers and The Long Hike didn't make it (or DMFA, but the artist had medical issues last year anyway).


  1. Flayrah
  2. In-Fur-Nation
  3. Zooscape

Visual Art

  1. Our Furry City - Anthrocon 2023 by ARVEN92
  2. The Record Store by Squiddy
  3. Winterrock Oasis by Bubblewolf

A bit hard to pick between Squiddy's but I liked the brighter option.


  1. Laika: Aged Through Blood
  2. Pseudoregalia
  3. Friends vs Friends

Pity the UMAs couldn't fill the slot with another choice, but in fairness adding to the ballot after it starting wouldn't give it a fair shot anyway.


  1. WikiFur
  2. Wolfery
  3. Kemono Cafe

Furry MUCKs are in a strange half-life, with the largest still going but at reduced size with a few busy rooms, and a few others limping on with a handful of olayers. RP options are fragmented with e.g. F-list, and Wolfery doesn't exactly help there, but at the same time the tech needs to move forward as it's increasingly hard for people to even connect to an MUCK (they were never designed to be used in a connectionless way, despite it basically just needing a small buffer per connection).


  1. Forlorn Raven
  2. Draco
  3. Pig in Dress

It looked like a very nice pig, OK? Draco was clearly a lot to accomplish, can see it winning, conversely Raven had the fuzzy quality edge.

Your rating: None

We won!

Actually I guess this is your list of potential winners? I got confused because voting has ended now but I guess not actually announced.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None

It's my votes; the UMA put together a video so can't turn it around on a dime.

Edit: Apparently they're being presented at Golden State Fur Con early next month.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Furry MUCKs are in a strange half-life, with the largest still going but at reduced size with a few busy rooms, and a few others limping on with a handful of olayers. RP options are fragmented with e.g. F-list, and Wolfery doesn't exactly help there, but at the same time the tech needs to move forward as it's increasingly hard for people to even connect to an MUCK (they were never designed to be used in a connectionless way, despite it basically just needing a small buffer per connection).

Not sure what you mean by some of that, to be honest. Are you suggesting that the MUCKs need to change to using some kind of dedicated app with a push-notification system, or something? Because that seems like a horrible idea, seeing as how that would mean all of your MUCK activity now has to go through Apple or Google's servers to get to the intended recipients, the administrators of FurryMUCK, Tapestries, etc. would have to develop and maintain their own apps, etc.

What's so difficult about connecting to them as they are now? There are plenty of good MUCK clients out there for just about every platform already; the only difficulty I can see in attracting new people is that (A) there isn't a good "MUCKs For Dummies" resource to get them started; (B) they don't know about them because there's hardly any publicity for them; and (C), frankly, our education system has produced a couple of generations of functional illiterates who refuse to read anything longer than a Xwitter post and can't write a coherent sentence to save their lives. :-P

The first two are solvable problems; the third is probably the biggest barrier to bringing in new players, and I'm not sure how you'd overcome that one in an inherently text-based environment like a MUCK.

Your rating: None

One issue is a lot of people have mobile devices as their main method of interaction rather than desktop computers and it is hard to maintain the continuous connection required by a MUCK. It doesn't need to use an notifications system but it does need to be able to handle being unable to send or receive for a bit and catching up later.

In theory TCP can do this, but for various technical reasons it often does not/is forcibly disconnected by intermediaries, so modern chat systems tend to have a replayable message-oriented protocol at a higher level where you can request all messages from time X, rather than just pushing the output onto the network and hoping for the best.

Your rating: None

Basically things like Discord have replaced the MUCK, and it's for a reason that Appa didn't list here.

If I hop into a room on a MUCK and there are people there I don't have a mood on what was occurring up until that point because I only see things that happen when I'm around.

On a group chat then I can go back and read what is going on and jump in if I desire even if I'm not present.

While the MUCK format is more realistic to the real world where you don't know what was going on before you showed up? Sure. But less efficient for sure. And when it comes to games and programs, it's not what is 'realistic to real-world experiences' it's what is useful or fun.

It isn't that people are illiterate, it's just we have less spare time to dedicate to sitting on a service in order to get any use out of it.

Like DND a MUCK would then require planning if you want to have a good RP session and as we all get busier, it gets tougher to make such plans.

Your rating: None

Honestly, I can't imagine trying to participate in a text-based roleplaying system on a mobile device being anything other than sheer pain anyway. Phones are simply not meant for typing any significant amount of text into, or for reading paragraphs scrolling by as other people are typing their dialog, poses, and descriptions into the same room at the same time, and even on a larger tablet device, I don't think I could manage it for long before the inability to touch-type on a flat screen and constantly having to override autocorrectcorrupt's unhelpful suggestions drove me mad. :-P

Your rating: None

The winners will be announced at Golden State Fur Con on Sunday, April 7, at 11:30 am PST.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Went into detail on everything that happened in a recent podcast appearance:

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

Your rating: None Average: 4 (4 votes)

Well, anyway, glad you're ... alive and well ... ish? I mean, with friends like me, don't go making enemies, ha ha, but grousing aside, hope the rest of 2024 goes a little better.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

Thanks. The fandom is more than just :3 at each other, people are complicated. And people make big public fuck ups from time to time, it happens.

But I feel like it's a rough patch, but a necessary recentering. Obviously living in the same house was never gonna work, I know too much, but I happened to get a wicked place all to myself for pretty cheap! Now that I'm on my own, I feel like I'm fully in control of my life for the first time. The civet has truly been unleashed. And now with Twitter deleted from my phone, it's time to focus.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Debut Album out now go stream it plz

Your rating: None

Does anyone have that cancelled 2023 Recommended Music List?

I can't find it anywhere!!!!!

Your rating: None

This is probably what you're looking for - but remember, they're no longer officially recommended!

Your rating: None

huh, it's weird.
they don't have the album list that i remembered.
maybe my memories are wrong.
but thanks anyway!

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About the author

GreenReaper (Laurence Parry)read storiescontact (login required)

a developer, editor and Kai Norn from London, United Kingdom, interested in wikis and computers

Small fuzzy creature who likes cheese & carrots. Founder of WikiFur, lead admin of Inkbunny, and Editor-in-Chief of Flayrah.